JackWilliams3DIV (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

This is an amazing rifle. I own one and carried with me whenever I go on parade with the 1st Brigade Combat Team of the 3d Infantry Division

WinchesterMod94 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

@JimmyG228 7.62mm is the diameter of the bullet the 39mm is the length of the cartridge from the base to the tip of the bullet. you are right that there were 7.62mm bullets used before the 7.62x39 such as the 7.62x54r. but the 7.62x39 was designed in 1943. also the 7.62x39 was used in the sks-45 2 years before it was used in the ak-47.Using halnywiater's logic the 7.62x39mm would be 30-43, 30 for caliber of the bullet and 43 for the year it was disigned.

JimmyG228 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

@WinchesterMod94 I'm aware of the AK47 round being a 7.62mm, I was simply throwing out a hypothetical situation where the logic of what was said to me by halnywiatr could have been used for the AK47 round.Also you're mistaken about how long the 7.62mm cartridge has been around. It dates back to the turn of the 20th century & had been used by the Russians years before the Great War even. The 7.62x39mm was exclusive to the AK47 in 1947 as far as I know.

WinchesterMod94 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

@JimmyG228 No because the AK47 shoots a 7.62x39. the ak came into service in 1947 but the ak47 was not the first gun to use the 7.62x39. the 7.62 was disigned in 1943. And also in rounds like the 30-30 the first 30 stands for caliber and the second 30 for 30 grains of powder. same for rounds like the 25-35, 30-40, 44-40, 45-70 for example.

JimmyG228 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

@halnywiatr Oh ok, now I get it. Thanks. So for example the AK-47 could easily been called, say a 30-47 then right?

halnywiatr (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

@JimmyG228 Anything after the 30 is not a measurement; it is a name designation. It could just as well be .30Q or 30-YZ.

JimmyG228 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

@halnywiatr Ok that was explained really well, thank you.I'm still fuzzy on why the US would call a 7.62mm a .308 when it's smaller then a .303. Wouldn't calling it a .302 make more sense? Or better yet, why would the British use the number .303, when as you said it's actually .311? Its seem the only standardization is in meteoric.I hate to sound nit-picky but I just started reloading my own ammo & my books don't answer these questions. They don't even hint at an explenation.

halnywiatr (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

@JimmyG228 The .303 is only three thousandths of an inch larger diameter than the 30-06 (.311 versus [ironically] the Springfield's .308) or seven and a half thousandths of a millimeter larger. That is well less than a half a human hair's difference so, practically, both will travel down the same barrel. The difference is in chambering and the ballistics of shape and charge.

halnywiatr (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

@JimmyG228 Although many cartridges are nominally 30 caliber, there can be minor differences in bullet diameter from how different armories classified the rounds with the measure sometimes being applied to the bullet mold or to the bullet with or without jacket, etc..The .308 is based on a short version of the 30-06 to enable its use in fully automatic weapons as the 30-06 recoil renders shoulder arms not effective for aiming. They share the same bullet.

halnywiatr (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

@JimmyG228 30-06; .303, and 308 are all nominally 30 caliber rounds. The numerals after the 30 are used to differentiate the cartridge from other 30 calibers and different armories use various naming conventions (the -06 comes from the year of acceptance). The differences can be based on differences in case and or bullet.